FWC - Food / Wine / Coffee (beer can come too)

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Re: Coffee thread

Post by blv » Wed 30 May, 2012 10:56 pm

I'm with Eric. There's a difference
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SecaBoy
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Re: Coffee thread

Post by SecaBoy » Wed 30 May, 2012 11:01 pm

pffttt. you wouldn't know a good coffee if it slapped you on your nuts. go back to your international roast. :P
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Re: Coffee thread

Post by daBOODA » Thu 31 May, 2012 7:47 am

Ok so I'll assume that we all agree that adding heat to already brewed coffee is bad. Take a swig of coffee from a perculator jug and you'll agree. Those things sit on a heat element to keep the coffee warm. It's adding heat, albeit slowly, to the coffee and that spoils it.

With an espresso machine you push hot water through the powder and the coffee falls through the doodad into the cup. The water is already heated as it passes through the powder. Once the water passes through the powder it's "brewed" and no more heat is added to it. The coffee cup doesn't have an element on it that adds heat to the coffee.

With a moka pot the whole pot conducts heat from the stove. It's all metal after all. So the water chamber that receives the heat first transmits the heat into the fresh water. That water heats up so much that it bubbles up (is it steam at that point? I don't know) through the coffee powder and then that brewed coffee bubbles up through the long stem thingo into the top chamber. So far, so good ...

Remember that the pot is made of metal. Heat will travel very easily from the bottom chamber (the thing that's meant to be heated) to the top chamber. Try this - put the moka on the stove without any water in it. See how long it takes for the whole pot to get warm. It's not the brewed coffee that's heating that top chamber, it's the stove. That heat will be transmitted to the brewed coffee and as a result the coffee will be 'burned'.
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Coffee thread

Post by dorift » Thu 31 May, 2012 9:13 am

But where is the heat coming from Boods?
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Re: Coffee thread

Post by SecaBoy » Thu 31 May, 2012 9:17 am

whilst i understand what you're saying, i see two issues with your theory.
1) you're meant to take it off the heat as soon as you hear it "brew" so any heat remaining in the metal will dissipate (and it dissipates quite quickly from the ones i've used).
2) how come you're leaving it in the pot? once its brewed, you usually just pour it straight away into the cups, no?

i do agree with you that if you were to leave it on the stove/campfire/etc that yes, it would burn the coffee, but you shouldn't be leaving it on heat once its done.
its like the siphon thingy we have at home. as soon as the water has evaporated into the top chamber, you remove the flame from underneath it and then the coffee filters to the bottom again.
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Re: Coffee thread

Post by daBOODA » Thu 31 May, 2012 9:21 am

The brewed coffee doesn't go up the stem instantly. It takes time for all of the coffee to make it into the top chamber.

During that time more heat it added to the coffee that's already in the top chamber.


Graham: the heat is coming from the stove?
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Re: Coffee thread

Post by DreamensioN » Thu 31 May, 2012 10:43 am

daBOODA wrote: With an espresso machine you push hot water through the powder and the coffee falls through the doodad into the cup.

FTR - the doodad is called a "portafiller handle" or "group handle". It's what locks into the group head (which is the fixed part on the espresso machine where the water comes from. And the bit inside the portafiller handle is called the portafiller basket. That's where the coffee goes and gets tampered down/packed into.

^^That's my contribution to this thread. Carry on.

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Coffee thread

Post by dorift » Thu 31 May, 2012 10:56 am

I was just enjoying reading your replies Boods... And picturing your rising frustration lol
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Re: Coffee thread

Post by daBOODA » Thu 31 May, 2012 12:20 pm

Noel: Thanks for that :)

Graham: mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
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Re: Coffee thread

Post by iano » Thu 31 May, 2012 5:59 pm

Geez anyone'd think we're discussing the best way to cook steak (every bloke has his method and it's the best fuck yahs). But no :)

My moka brewing method® ™ works as perfectly as moka brew could be expected to taste. Does have a distinct flavour not everyone likes, but imo get it right, with quality beans and these things are capable of an exceptional cup.

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Re: Coffee thread

Post by daBOODA » Thu 31 May, 2012 9:48 pm

iano wrote:Geez anyone'd think we're discussing the best way to cook steak (every bloke has his method and it's the best fuck yahs). But no :)

My moka brewing method® ™ works as perfectly as moka brew could be expected to taste. Does have a distinct flavour not everyone likes, but imo get it right, with quality beans and these things are capable of an exceptional cup.

0.02c but sorry non tax deductible.

And moka brew is expected to taste like arse.
"The argument doesn't work with me. Go back to your cracker jack lifestyle and I'll meet you at the evolutionary bell curve ... I'll be sitting there a while, it's kind of a tortoise and the hare story." - Bill Hicks

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Re: Coffee thread

Post by Ted » Thu 31 May, 2012 11:19 pm

I got one of those dual boiler machines last year, and its been a real pain but joy too. I can get consistent results out of Veneziano beans, and Seven Seeds beans. But just about everything else is just too hit and miss. Having to adjust brew temperature, infusion time, grind, amount and then getting my own skills good enough to judge tamper pressure has been a lot of frustrating fun. Then there is the whole milk saga.

Speaking of steak, have a look at the Heston Blumenthal steak cooking technique. Sceptical I was, but I tried it for my last three steaks (did rare, medium, well just to try the method) and it has worked beautifully each time. Its a lot of work though, but his explanation makes sense. Tried it on a pan, and on the barbie with same results. Beautifully tender steak with a touch crispy caramelised outside. And his roast chicken works great too.
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Coffee thread

Post by iano » Fri 01 Jun, 2012 7:54 am

Ted, Breville BES900? Nice buy :)
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Re: Coffee thread

Post by German » Fri 01 Jun, 2012 8:56 am

Just had a latte from belissimo thanks to jonesy. Was smooth and made me warm.

Don't think it's the beginning of my crack addiction, but i could have one in the future to warm me up.
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Re: Coffee thread

Post by Jonesy » Fri 01 Jun, 2012 9:03 am

glad you enjoyed it, oh and the "view" isnt too bad either some days

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Re: Coffee thread

Post by SecaBoy » Fri 01 Jun, 2012 9:53 am

view is delicious on the weekends. :P

plus one of the most consistently awesome coffees in town :)
1991 Toyota Corolla Seca ==> SOLD
2001 Subaru Impreza WRX ==> SOLD
2006 Honda Accord Euro Luxury ==> SOLD
1990 Nissan Silvia RB20DET ==> SOLD
2008 Toyota TRD Aurion 3500SL ==> SOLD
2010 Ford Falcon XR6T ==> SOLD
:cry
2016 VW Polo 81TSI DSG

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Re: Coffee thread

Post by DreamensioN » Fri 01 Jun, 2012 10:19 am

Ted wrote:I got one of those dual boiler machines last year, and its been a real pain but joy too. I can get consistent results out of Veneziano beans, and Seven Seeds beans. But just about everything else is just too hit and miss. Having to adjust brew temperature, infusion time, grind, amount and then getting my own skills good enough to judge tamper pressure has been a lot of frustrating fun. Then there is the whole milk saga.

Speaking of steak, have a look at the Heston Blumenthal steak cooking technique. Sceptical I was, but I tried it for my last three steaks (did rare, medium, well just to try the method) and it has worked beautifully each time. Its a lot of work though, but his explanation makes sense. Tried it on a pan, and on the barbie with same results. Beautifully tender steak with a touch crispy caramelised outside. And his roast chicken works great too.

I was going to give that a try. It makes sense though. When I was at Maze Grill (Gordon Ramsay's restaurant in Melbourne - which is now closed) last year, I saw them cooking my steak. They put it in a (broiler?), and smashed it with heat from both sides at the same time. It was the 2nd best steak I've ever had.

Heston's method of constantly turning it every 15-30sec or whatever follows the same principle of keeping both sides hot.

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Coffee thread

Post by iano » Fri 01 Jun, 2012 10:38 am

This is coffee not steak, keep to the point
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Re: Coffee thread

Post by daBOODA » Fri 01 Jun, 2012 11:25 am

iano wrote:This is coffee not steak, keep to the point
You must be new here LOL
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Re: Coffee thread

Post by tipper » Fri 01 Jun, 2012 11:35 am

Which episode of Heston's has the 15 second steak flipping? I saw an episode where he was using a gas touch after cooking in an oven but can't remember this.

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